Georgia Gould, a fine racer and decent person, has a petition up on line asking the UCI to require that women's field payouts be equal to men's field payouts. She doesn't require that the $35 and $25 payouts be equalized - y'know, the pittance payouts for those not finishing on the podium. Just the top 5 position payouts.
Equal pay for equal work is how it's characterized.
In my professional life I actually work on issues of this sort. Just to play devil's advocate here, assuming Elite Race = Elite Race, if you are proceeding on an equal pay for equal work principle, how can winning in a field that is at best half the size of a comparable men's field (in well attended events) to one ninth of the size of a comparable men's field, be characterized as equal work? Sure, it's 45 or 60 minutes or two hours of riding, but if you only beat 9 riders, or 55, it's not the same as beating 35 or 125, respectively.
Moreover, there is a trickle down effect that is somewhat jarring. In races where there is a men's 5, 4, 3-4, 3, Masters 40/50+ along with a Pro-1-2, common in roadracing, promoters have grave problems breaking even hosting 3-4 and 1-2-3 women's fields. You have to cover the cost of cops for the rolling enclosures plus all the other amenities, and the big costs don't pro-rate per rider, they pro-rate per race. To some extent women's can free ride on some of the services subsidized by packed men's 5, 4, and 3 races - ambulance coverage, potty rental, number purchases, etc. Buy do you really think the top 5 prize list in the women's 3-4, with 18 riders, ought to be equal to the men's 3-4 with 100 or 125 riders? I've often felt a little shabby, used, knowing my entry fees went to subsidize tiny elite fields with 45 or 50 riders at best. Taking another chunk out of my hide to subsidize women's elite fields with half that many or fewer riders, and taking another chunk out to similarly subsidize tiny women's 3-4 fields with a prize list equal to the 100+ rider 3-4 fields, would make me feel even more used.
This sport is subsidized on the backs of the participants at all but the very highest levels. You want higher prize lists for women? Drag more women out and get them into racing. I'm dying to see more women out there racing. It's good for the sport, good for the women who participate, and it will relieve a lot of the financial pressures on promoters, for whom every single rider is a financial burden until the costs are covered, and for whom every rider past that point represents profit, as well as a chance to improve prize lists.
I help promote a couple races. We make the women's prize list as high as we can make it in good conscience in light of the field sizes. Any primarily amateur race, even with a strong elite event (short of NRC pro attached) is perilous close to a break-even deal. At current levels of event support in road & cross, if we make *any* prize list in any field substantially higher, we have to rely on getting exceptional turnout, or we have to raise prices to subsidize it. By "we" I mean most promoters in these parts - while the biggest races break even or a touch better, most promoters - amateur clubs with tiny budgets - simply look to break even or not lose too much. We could finance higher prize lists by taking money out of the men's 4, 3-4 and 3, three of the four fields that subsidize the others. (Men's 5 get no cash, just medals and the like). Seems to me like you're screwing somebody there as it is, without taking another $500 out of their hides.
Nevertheless, here's my promise on this issue - in the events that I'm involved in, if I see really good women's turnout, I'll fight like hell to try to get the prizes improved. But the money has to come from some place and it's hard to justify when, most races, we don't know if we can break even until we get a couple dozen race day registrations. Got that? You want more prize money? Bring out your female friends and flood the zone. I'll do everything in my power to support getting more women into roadracing and cross. But I can't justify arguing in favor of shafting the vast majority of racers, who pay to play, in order to subsidize fields that are consistent money-losers. In cross, you can free ride. In roadracing, not so much; in fact if I were to run the costs, I'd submit that women's fields in roadraces are big money losers, with small fields, rolling police enclosures, motor refs, even with donated broom and commissaire wagons and free Mavic wheel support.
If it were actual work and we were making a product, you could plausibly argue that the same 'product' deserves equal pay. Even there, there is an argument that women's events even at the elite level, are less popular with spectators and thus don't merit the same pay because part of the work is drawing fans, and since fewer fans are drawn the market has passed judgment on the quality of the product. (It can go the other way - women's tennis supports men's tennis, and I'd submit men's tennis is an inferior spectator sport to women's). I'd entertain the argument in the interest of growing the sport, at least until the financial burden became onerous.
But for the vast majority of racers, including the vast majority of elits, it isn't actual work we do. In application, we lower level male racers bear the lion's share (good one there, eh?) of the financial burden of racing - not just paying for their own gear but paying for the prize lists and support services for all the other classes - women, juniors, elite men, and the other small classes that don't get bundled into a larger race. You play, we pay. And it's patently unfair to try to guilt us into taking up yet more burden to better compensate a class that doesn't even come close to paying for itself. As it is we stand to lose several hundred bucks on a men's elite roadrace, and that's assuming a strong turnout of 50 riders - optimistically.
After all, we pay a lot to race as it is. You don't think those carbon cranks and white bike shoes pay for themselves, do ya?
Flame away...
11 comments:
I'm all for equal representation in the prize pool. There's a simple algorithm to make it as fair as possible.
The hazy part is how to apportion the Cat.1, 2, 3, etc money but maybe something like;
5 categories... split cash 5 equal ways, leave the middle category alone then take 5% off the next lowest category (4) and add it to the corresponding higher category (2) and 10% off cat.5 goes onto cat.1.
Next is where the gender equity comes in... simple and fair... has anyone heard of the term per capita. Like you said Jim, if there's 200 entrants in a category and 25% are women then 25% of that category prize pool goes to women. More girls... more money for girls.
I have no problem with that.
I read some chatter on this on one of the group lists I'm on (can't remember which one), and saw an interesting strategy for addressing the issue. A race promoter in British Columbia (my old stomping grounds) achieves some gender parity by paying the top 3 spots in Elite or Pro fields the same amount. If the men's winner gets $1K, so does the women's winner. But men's fields are usually deeper, so the payout goes deeper there - maybe all the way to 10. Most women's fields pay out 3 or 5 deep is all. So it's an approximation of the per capita solution proposed by Big Mike, while still rewarding the podium with some parity.
What I'm not sure about is what part of the prize money lures top racers. Is it $10K given out 20 deep, or is it the $2500 awaiting the winner? If the former, the BC promoter's solution may not help in the long run as it doesn't increase the draw for women's fields - their total purse would still be less than men's fields if they remain smaller.
So some combination of parity, per capita, and your solution Jim - get more women at the races - is what's necessary to break the cycle, I think.
I think you bring up some good points Jim. This is a hard topic to talk about because you want to be fair. The main problem I see is that if the was to happen it might cut womens races out. I have been on many clubs and it is a conversation that everyone has had a discussion about and that is to even run either a juniors race or a womens race. I personally would not want to feel the wrath and anger from Evelyn by cutting out womens races. If anyone remembers reston this year had a smaller prize purse for the lower categories then other races so I do not agree with taking money from lower categories.
Now I remember being at one race this year and they were giving women primes that were worth more than mens prize lists. I wanted to race in that race because I would not have minded winning those prizes for myself or for my wife. I think inorder to get women to race more we need to have prizes being wedding related. Those draw huge crowds running through stores and hurting each other, more dangerous then most crits.
Mike, Mike - good ideas all. I really wish we had a lot more women racing. It would be good for the sport. I don't think it's a Field of Dreams situation though - if you build it (with prize money) they will come. You can maybe do that once or twice a year but it's not a sustainable model, not unless you get some source of money that is de-linked from the number of participants.
Thanks Kyle. You didn't have to make a comment that was likely to draw RPG rounds just to divert heat from me ("wedding-related") but I appreciate your willingness to step in there and take a well deserved one for the team.
Even if you build it they don't come...
Near where I live we recently had a criterium linked to the biggest olympic distance triathlon in Australia. The crits were elite only. Women 30 minutes plus 2, men 60 minutes plus 2. $5000 for first in both races with prizes down to 10th in both.
A few weeks out from the event Ridley (Predictor-Lotto bike sponsor) offered itself as an additional race sponsor with $50,000 (yes, a years wages for most of us) for both races if they had 50 entrants. The boys fought for $50,000 but the girls could only field 18 riders. Not much of a spectacle and not much of a reward but with $50,000 available they still couldn't find the numbers.
I believe that she is saying minimum payout match. You can pay the fellas more,or go deeper, but the minimun amount paid has to be equal.
Jonathan
Yep. That's the bulk of the money paid, typically over 3/4ths of it, and it still has to come from somewhere. It would take better care of the elite-of-the-elite, but worse care of the rising riders. More incentive to make it into the elite, but less incentive to battle for 6-10, or however deep you go.
I don't think it's an unreasonable idea at all. I just don't think it is workable for most amateur events. Seriously - my club's racers pay to race. The club breaks even every year pretty much. Should we tax the members extra to cover the cost of hosting races? Or should we raise race fees again, raising them from $30 to a higher amount, to increase the revenues enough to support bigger purses in the women's classes, which are already big money losers?
And how should we respond to the claim that will likely arise, that it's unfair to compensate the men to 10th, but the women only to 5th? It seems to me that the exact same arguments would be as valid against Georgia's proposal, as they are against the current system.
How do we get more women to participate without taxing the men, that's what I want to know.
My petition is about UCI races, not local races. I understand that many local races barely break even, but if promoters want UCI sanctioning in order to attract the top riders, they should be able to compensate those riders fairly. I agree that we, as women racers need to encourage more women to come out and participate, but this petition is really about UCI races. Making the top-5 equal was n arbitrary starting point, but I had to pick something. If the women's fields are not as deep as the mens, the payout shouldn't go as far, but dont penalize the women who do show up. Thanks for your interest in this topic, and your support if you have signed the petition. I think it's great that this has gotten people talking!
-Georgia
Georgia, keep the conversation going, please. Though I disagree with you it's an issue we need to keep discussing. I find it's very tough to talk women into racing, a lot easier to get men into it, but the women's fields offer by far the greatest possibility for growth in grassroots racing.
And, while many of the top races are UCI races, there's a move afoot among a lot of the promoters on the cross side to win UCI sanction for their events. Thus it's an issue for some of those who promote local series (e.g. MABRA) or non-series events, with ambitions.
Perhaps if you limited it to the top tier of UCI sanctioned events? I'd find that a lot easier to support because they come up with *fantastic* prize lists for events of that caliber, and it's more of a sponsor economics issue than a grassroots tax issue.
Ps. Keep crushing the mid-atlantic boys in your tuneup races. It's hard to know whether to cheer for you or my male teammates sometimes when you show up and pick on them.
The Tour de Toona pays out more for the women than the men from what I remember. I believe there's definitely an opportunity for events, promoters and sponsors when marketing their events to showcase this feature. (equal prize money for the top female and male winner) I'm all for it.
I haven't done any research on this topic, but it would be interesting to see how the sponsors for the major races break down as far as who their product/service is really geared towards. This seems to me to be an important factor in where they believe the best bang for the buck can be achieved. In some cases I'm sure it's skewed towards the men, and in some cases it's skewed in the direction of the women. An example, (maybe a bad one don't shoot me) is for instance you are sponsoring the Tampax Sprint Points Jersey,.... nuff said.
I think many times it's a case of men being the promoters, therefore, they tend to bend slightly towards sponsors that cater more so towards a male buying audience. I could be wrong. Thought provoking topic though.
-John P.
Part of growing women's involvement in cycling needs to happen very early too. Involve your daughters in the sport....bring them to races, get them bikes and ride w/ them and balance that against the traditional activities for girls...like dancing - which to me builds athletic skills too. I bring my girls to the CSC race every year in Arlington, we ring cowbells and yell Allez ... and in fact I usually only go for the women's race....to show them what they can do. I'm guessing many women cyclists are athletes in other sports....and crossed over for some reason....injury, friends etc. so get them involved in any sport. And its another reason I ride on a team whose core is women racers...I want to build that confidence in my 2 girls....but end of the day its up to them to choose the sport they want to pursue. Besides...we all know its more fun to ride w/ chicks then dudes....right? Particular chicks who can rip your legs off and get all muddy in a cx race...
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